Make Magestorm great again

This forum is for suggestions and polls for Magestorm.

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Barren
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Posts: 25
Joined: 8:24 pm, Mon Jan 23, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Barren » 10:19 pm, Mon Jan 30, 2017

Healy wrote:and you are wrong Barren,u can get p5/fh/heal7,frac w3 if its on the livegiving line at lvl 30,what does that even change....
u have no DK/para thats it,but ur still prefectly fine as a tank and BHer
Right, that's why I also said to space out the spells more so that you need more picks to obtain them. You wouldn't have enough spell list picks to get the build that you laid out. I am not developer obviously, so I don't know how much work would be involved. I was thinking one extra spell list pick needed for each spell in the healing line, plus some level requirement adjustments, and one extra for each heal other transferred to the Lifegiving line.

Healy
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Healy » 10:23 pm, Mon Jan 30, 2017

we've tried the upping of cleric spell levels before,they called it the "Healy patch" and i got alot of shit for that lol

Barren
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Barren » 10:28 pm, Mon Jan 30, 2017

Dain wrote:How many years did we have a consistent community of players with the "old" code? With all due respect and appreciation to the developers to bringing this back, when and why did the last healthy community we had disappear? I seem to recall due to all of this nonsense.

I agree with Healy. Reduce HP/prayer in small increments. Reduce wounding damage. Leave everything else alone
There were a lot more players in the Gamestorm days. Clerics were better suited to that era. Now it is different, because there aren't many players, and clerics on small teams really cause the game to become stagnant. That is, unless you abuse level stacking and pair the highest level cleric with the higest level fighter, and they end up pounding lowbies for an hour. That makes it exciting for the duo, but it is also bad for the game.

Since there are significantly fewer players, it makes sense to revisit the idea of adjusting Clerics.

Ryan
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Posts: 6
Joined: 6:30 pm, Thu Jan 19, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Ryan » 2:09 am, Tue Jan 31, 2017

1. Can we see the list of spell changes in this iteration? If that's too time consuming to compile, perhaps a database of the spell values that can be compared to the values on the SoLD website..

2. My favorite Cleric change from the past was probably the most simple of them all - halving Prayer duration to 30 seconds. That ensured that I had a little more of a *chance* to find a prayerless Cleric.

3. The inherent flaw with Clerics is their really awful ley system. I don't think anything can really be done to solve the Cleric issues without first addressing this.

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Sorien
Developer
Posts: 630
Joined: 3:28 pm, Sun Jul 19, 2015

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Sorien » 10:53 am, Tue Jan 31, 2017

Ryan wrote:1. Can we see the list of spell changes in this iteration? If that's too time consuming to compile, perhaps a database of the spell values that can be compared to the values on the SoLD website..

2. My favorite Cleric change from the past was probably the most simple of them all - halving Prayer duration to 30 seconds. That ensured that I had a little more of a *chance* to find a prayerless Cleric.

3. The inherent flaw with Clerics is their really awful ley system. I don't think anything can really be done to solve the Cleric issues without first addressing this.
I don't have a list of all the changes made.. I would have to diff the new spell file with an old one which would take foreeever.

Reducing prayer duration isn't acceptable in my opinion.. we need to balance the game without adding any form of tedium in the process. The W1/W2 and prayer damage reduction changes are a good start.

As for the ley system... meh, I don't mind it. ;x

Arsoncop
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Arsoncop » 2:36 pm, Tue Jan 31, 2017

I just got drunk from Law's tears.

<3

Rock

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Slick
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Joined: 4:18 pm, Sun Oct 30, 2016
Location: PDX

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Slick » 3:56 pm, Tue Jan 31, 2017

[edit]

nothing to see here
Last edited by Slick on 1:20 am, Wed Feb 01, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

Law
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Joined: 8:08 pm, Thu Jan 19, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Law » 4:13 pm, Tue Jan 31, 2017

Arsoncop wrote:I just got drunk from Law's tears.

<3

Rock
Lol. Can't get frustrated if you don't play frustrating games. I'm not playing this masochist simulator until things have the slightest semblance of equality. I'm not putting myself in situations that I can't win.

And with that I segue into:
Slick wrote:
fix the population.
Fix the game. If the game is balanced and fun, then the population will come. Maybe we should post it on sado masochist forums so people who get off on powerlessness can get their fix.

Arsoncop
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Arsoncop » 4:19 pm, Tue Jan 31, 2017

I love you long time, Law. Me gusta. #wordwall

Rock

Ryan
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Ryan » 12:58 am, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Sorien wrote:Reducing prayer duration isn't acceptable in my opinion.. we need to balance the game without adding any form of tedium in the process. The W1/W2 and prayer damage reduction changes are a good start.
I'm sad to hear this, but whatever..

Kuraokami
Regular
Posts: 190
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Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Kuraokami » 2:09 am, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Barren wrote: Really? I remember different spell lines, but all of the heals were in the same line. I'm saying you can split them into two lines so a cleric can't heal themselves and heal others (effectively) without seriously jeopardizing their build (limited prayer, walls, offense).

It was such.


(End quote reference)


The problem with just a flat nerf is that a flat nerf leaves the cleric with mana deficiencies, which may seem like the point, but such is a doubled edged sword, because it causes the cleric to stay closer to the shrine and causes the cleric to have less activity when he goes into the battle, which causes the player to enter the psychology of the kid sitting on the sidelines, afraid to enter and then feeling ineffective when he does. Do you understand why this would be poorly received by the players?


Sorien, could you please post simply the spell lines list for the cleric from the bottom of the spell.dat for the last version we used?


When I split the class's lines up, it was done to lower their power when they entered into the fight, while granting them the gifts of increased specialization to feel more unique and of increased frequency of casting to increase the amount of individual interactions with other players. The heals themselves retained most of their efficiencies, but were reduced in levels and strength, allowing them to cast heals more often for the same net heal result, which increased activity and interaction. Combined with the other lines being expanded upon, the class became more diverse. So, overall, the class became more "fun" to play. There is a difference between diminishing a player's concerns/feelings and providing an alternative solution that could make both parties happy.


Sorien and myself were about 85% on the same page as far as the clerics overall strength at the end of MSN is concerned, with that really being trivial overall.


What is missing from the equation however is remembering the other revamps that were also either done or in the works. For disabling a cleric, the increased viability of signs caused more arcanists to have sign unpower 3 to use against airwalling clerics, and Darkstorm was added to void, which gave the ability to both shred airwalls and void the cleric. For killing the cleric, part of the mentalist overhaul involved the Psionics line, which were fast, aimed projectiles which did damage slightly higher than Mind line and ignored all prayers' dmg reduction and the TR aspect of prayer and which also went through all player walls.


What Shadle is speaking of is that, historically, Magestorm has always had a community full of toxic players, and so the game eventually craters in on itself from the community stance, which has nothing to do with anything actually game related. When Magestorm came out, it was the early days of computing and so simply being online itself placed people in a minority position. Then, you had being on a game online, which itself was a minority position within the previous minority. Then, you had the specific game itself, which, again, a minority within the minority. And, now, you have those within the nostalgia of such. So, you have a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority. Within life, this is something that tends to happen. For one reason or another, we find ourselves in a continuing trend of marginalizing ourselves away from the norms of society, away from the masses of peers, and towards what can really, genuinely, only be called maladaptivity, and, when one is faced with such, the most common response is to highlight our own positive uniquenesses to mask the necessarily existent opposing flaws. I, myself, for instance do such with my presence, my understanding of people and society, and my intellect. When people, for whatever reason, decide to be abrasive about my intelligence, I tell them that I say that I am intelligent and act as such simply because I am such, and so I use such to try and help people, not because I actually value or want to be intelligent. And so they typically call me lucky or say they wish they were or whatnot, and so I tell them, everything has its price and the price I paid for my intelligence is very high, and that I would rather just be normal. And so it goes within the community on Magestorm. For whatever reasons, everyone involved with the game has, for some reason or another, in some way or another, found themselves on the perimeters of society, and, being away from the center, which is being on the outter edges of what really is most likely a circle, we find ourselves on far or opposing ends of the circle, so vastly seeming different, no reconciliation in sight. And yet, the perimeters itself is proof of not our differences, but of the shared pains we all have, we all know, and in so seeing this, we may better see each other. And, maybe, that counts for something.

Gatorade2121
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Joined: 4:05 pm, Sun Jan 22, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Gatorade2121 » 1:38 pm, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Kura you are so smart how can I be like you buddy

Arsoncop
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 4:16 pm, Thu Jan 19, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Arsoncop » 2:04 pm, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Cash me ousside. How bow dah?

Kuraokami
Regular
Posts: 190
Joined: 8:56 pm, Sat Jan 21, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby Kuraokami » 5:49 pm, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Gatorade2121 wrote:Kura you are so smart how can I be like you buddy
Probably not the best idea in the world lol

PhiL
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: 9:30 pm, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Re: Make Magestorm great again

Postby PhiL » 9:41 pm, Wed Feb 01, 2017

Kura... "what you've just said... Is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."


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