FFA Problems/EXP Rate

[Kuraokami]

Well, by griefing I mean that it's something Sorien or mods should take care of, not something that would be a balance issue.

No, this is a fighting game. He's supposed to fight me. He should never be punished for fighting me.

Oh, I moreso meant that you counter-grief by bleeding him in the back while he is fighting then hiding, not so that you yourself could kill him, just so that other players would take him down enough that he'd get bored at not overpowering and leave.

This lacks real world experience. You don't "get someone from the back" when he's actively looking for you. You're just delivering yourself to him. Also, it really wasn't a good suggestion, considering it takes much more effort for me to use it than for him to nullify it.

Are you saying that in FFA's, the same levels of those other 3 classes are imbalanced compared to Clerics?

This is a joke, right? Or do you not read my posts, or all the math I have done, or even played Magestorm? It's pretty widely accepted in the community that Clerics aren't beatable 1v1 by any class. The only class who even has a chance is a Mind Ment, and those are bullshit as well.

I'm gonna be honest are you trolling me or is there something constructive you wish to attain from this argument?

Not trolling, just following your thought process.

Clerics can use heal self in FFA's, correct?

[Law]

Clerics can use heal self in FFA's, correct?

Ahh ok. Yes they can.

Self heals aren't the problem with Clerics though, it's Prayer. Prayer multiplies both their health pool and the strength of their self heals by an extreme degree.

I honestly think the issue with the forum polls is nobody wants to see "their class" nerfed, when all the classes need tuning. Clerics are by far the worst, though; and because Clerics need a very large nerf for them to be fair, all Cleric players will be against my suggestions.

[Kuraokami]

Clerics can use heal self in FFA's, correct?

Ahh ok. Yes they can.

Self heals aren't the problem with Clerics though, it's Prayer. Prayer multiplies both their health pool and the strength of their self heals by an extreme degree.

I honestly think the issue with the forum polls is nobody wants to see "their class" nerfed, when all the classes need tuning. Clerics are by far the worst, though; and because Clerics need a very large nerf for them to be fair, all Cleric players will be against my suggestions.

Well, I now either A) know the precise problem, or B) nope don't know it. Lol.

[Healy]

I honestly think the issue with the forum polls is nobody wants to see "their class" nerfed, when all the classes need tuning. Clerics are by far the worst, though; and because Clerics need a very large nerf for them to be fair, all Cleric players will be against my suggestions.

Not true.Dains poll to nerf clerics actually had more Yes then NO votes.Maybe you shouldnt suggest nerfing a class so much that it gets unplayable and more people would agree to you.
One step at a time.

[Law]

Well, I now either A) know the precise problem, or B) nope don't know it. Lol.

Clerics are a fed Dr. Mundo who's passive is 2x damage to towers, except he doesn't have to win a lane to get there. He starts there.

That's Clerics.

Not true.Dains poll to nerf clerics actually had more Yes then NO votes.Maybe you shouldnt suggest nerfing a class so much that it gets unplayable and more people would agree to you.
One step at a time.

LOL WHAT!!!!

SO WAIT, so being JUST AS VULNERABLE AS EVERY OTHER CLASS IS UNPLAYABLE?!!?! You're fucking pathetic.

I made a Cleric, no_prayer, and I have significant impact. I don't use prayer and I don't heal myself. You're just bad.

Here's some math you need to look at Healy. Even without Prayer, a 30 Cleric is tankier than a 30 Mage with HA and TR5 on. Get good already.

It's fine, Dain's poll looks like Clerics are gonna get hit with the nerf bat. I wonder if it will be enough.

To be honest, I think you could remove Prayer completely and Clerics would be fine. If Prayer was removed completely this game might actually be balanced for real. Seriously, I main a Mage, with 206 base HP. Mages are easier to kill with armors on than Clerics are with prayer off. You Cleric players are a fucking joke, for real.

If I can watch an Arc from a distance, gauge when he's gonna use Manastorm, and block it with one swift cast of Cold Wall, then your dumb Cleric ass can use Prayer reactively as well.

Small numbers have big effects sometimes.

Let's have some fun with numbers. Let's compare a Mage with Fire Armor on, vs a Cleric with no Prayer.

White Death x3 = 240 HP. Mage dead. Cleric alive.
Shrapnel Ball 1 x4 = 210 HP. Mage dead. Cleric alive, can take two more before death.
Tornado x3 (70 dmg?) = 210 HP. Mage dead. Cleric needs two more to die.
Lightning Storm x3 = 210 HP. Mage dead. Cleric needs two more.
Electrocute x5 = 240 HP. Mage dead. Cleric alive. Cleric needs one more, and if Mage resists one then they're both even at 6.
Death Knell x5 = 250 HP. Mage dead. Cleric alive.

This one will be fun:
Manastorm x3 = 300 HP. 225 damage to Mage (9.2% overkill). 300 dmg to Cleric (4.16% overkill).

Even with 25% reduction on mana damage, Mage is still easier to kill than a Cleric without any kind of reduction at all.

Not to mention Mages can't heal themselves. Cleric players are a joke.

[Healy]

omg ur so stupid it hurts....

You are less Vulnerable because you are the main target of every team that has played this game more then 5 minutes.
As a cleric you also have the worst ley of all classes ,you cant even compare it to other classes.
Making prayer 15 seconds duration with the bad ley a cleric has outside of shrine would make him oom within a minute just sustaining the prayer.
You cant just come here with your stupid math numbers when it has nothing to do with actual gameplay you fkin stupid retard.
Mr Kuralaw 2.0

[Kuraokami]

omg ur so stupid it hurts....

You are less Vulnerable because you are the main target of every team that has played this game more then 5 minutes.
As a cleric you also have the worst ley of all classes ,you cant even compare it to other classes.
Making prayer 15 seconds duration with the bad ley a cleric has outside of shrine would make him oom within a minute just sustaining the prayer.
You cant just come here with your stupid math numbers when it has nothing to do with actual gameplay you fkin stupid retard.
Mr Kuralaw 2.0

What are you butthurt for? People liked my clerics. Yours got hosed lol.

Anywayyyssss... think I just math'd the issue.

[Healy]

i wasnt even talkin to you ,go back under your Bridge

[Kuraokami]

i wasnt even talkin to you ,go back under your Bridge

Yall should really learn what trolling is lol

[Law]

omg ur so stupid it hurts....

You are less Vulnerable because you are the main target of every team that has played this game more then 5 minutes.
As a cleric you also have the worst ley of all classes ,you cant even compare it to other classes.
Making prayer 15 seconds duration with the bad ley a cleric has outside of shrine would make him oom within a minute just sustaining the prayer.
You cant just come here with your stupid math numbers when it has nothing to do with actual gameplay you fkin stupid retard.
Mr Kuralaw 2.0

I think Prayer should be removed entirely. 15 second Prayer is still pretty strong. If you "get focused" why don't you try positioning yourself better, using walls, or having competent teammates that kill the people attacking you. You know, how playing support is in *every other game ever*.

You don't need to be visible to the enemy to heal your team you know.

Also, you should be killable. These stalemates where three teams can't kill any person because they all have Clerics backing them up are glorified pumping matches. If you die, that's normal. Do something different and get better at the game. Welcome to the club that the other 3 classes accept as normal: Mortality.

That being said this is a thread about FFAs. Let's keep it about FFAs.

FFAs are a fighter game mode. Therefore, for Clerics to be viable in FFA they should be killable 1v1.

[Healy]

You can't really compare this game to any other game,its unique in many aspects.
I fully agree that clerics are way to strong,but its not because they are tanky,or have powerful heals,or can take you out 1 vs 1,its all those things combined which makes them OP.
Where we disagree on is what should be changed to bring them in line.You fail to understand that.
If u remove prayer clerics are just Mages with a bit more HP,self heals that cant outheal anything,no AoE damage and very bad ley outside of their shrine no elemental protection(or mana) and no target resist.
What impact would that have?
Level 1-29 clerics just stand in their shrine and rezpup or peak out to para and kill one person then run back to shrine.
lvl 30 clerics prolly just do the 2nd.
There might be a couple brave clerics that try and battle heal still but i doubt it would be an enjoyable experience for anyone.
Clerics need a nerf,just not something so drastic,nerf them overall,their offensive and defensive abilitys.

Back to topic FFA sucks and should NOT be part of this game for alot of reason that have been mentioned before.