Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

This forum is for suggestions and polls for Magestorm.

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Remove FFA Matches

Yes
7
47%
No
8
53%
 
Total votes: 15

Picnics
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Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Picnics » 11:23 am, Wed Mar 15, 2017

This has been a hot topic in game. People seem to be completely for or against it.

Pros:
1. Good for when there are not many people playing the game
2. Great Experience


Cons
1. Not fun for Clerics
2. Gets away from the Team aspect
3. Doesn't include everybody

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Slick
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Location: PDX

Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Slick » 6:14 pm, Wed Mar 15, 2017

FFA isnt the problem, remove 1-30. if removing 1-30 isnt an option. yes, get rid of FFA.

continuing rant about 1-30:
i've seen several people play for a few hours and never come back because of being destroyed by someone 15-20+ levels above. it's just not right. as a general rule (clerics excluded) a player should die in 3 to 4 hits. a level 1-5 vs a 20-25 dies in 1 hit, 2 tops. on the flipside the 1-5 can hit the 20-25 how many times and not kill them? 10 times? 20 times? the big bully is still not dead.

back to ffa:
more importantly, make it so everyone wants to play a team game -- boost team game exp %. it's around 65% right now? tack on another 35% overall exp if the match mode is non-FFA.

i voted no.

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Sorien
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Sorien » 7:37 pm, Wed Mar 15, 2017

I'll put the level ranges back if you guys want... but if you don't remember the old server there were low levels never getting to play and quitting because of it.

I would rather be able to play and get killed than not play at all.

Kuraokami
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Posts: 190
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Kuraokami » 9:08 pm, Wed Mar 15, 2017

I agree with Sorien on the levels.

On FFA, people either play it for 1 of 3 reasons:
1) better exp
2) easier to play when players online is low
3) games without teams are a fun alternative

What is NOT happening is #3, which is the actual intent of FFA mode. #1 Is unacceptable, because players should be rewarded for teamwork, a skill in game and in life, not penalized. #2 can be solved by altering rules in regular matches. I, for one, have never seen the point or attraction to "clench" shrining; winning a game should be by the efforts in the game up until that point, not by, essentially, a "drive by" shrining; i.e., shrinking should take far longer than it presently does, which reduces the destruction of team matches.

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Slick
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Slick » 2:07 am, Thu Mar 16, 2017

Sorien wrote:I would rather be able to play and get killed than not play at all.
guess its a lose/lose scenario. better to have the option than not...

ps old server had !levelup for the "low levels never getting to play and quitting because of it".

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Sorien
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Sorien » 11:28 am, Thu Mar 16, 2017

Slick wrote:
Sorien wrote:I would rather be able to play and get killed than not play at all.
guess its a lose/lose scenario. better to have the option than not...

ps old server had !levelup for the "low levels never getting to play and quitting because of it".
Problem is that most people don't read/are lazy, so they didn't know about the command and didn't even ask/talk to anyone.

I think instead of !levelup we just need to make low levels in a 1-30 viable as at least team support. The exp bonuses and damage taken reduction are good starts, but I think a little more is needed.

Silly
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Joined: 10:59 pm, Sat Feb 04, 2017

Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Silly » 10:03 pm, Thu Mar 16, 2017

@Slick

Free Thirty Thursday! Exp Gained is Exp Attained. I would imagine it to be like an event..

Ayo
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Joined: 2:29 pm, Sun Jan 22, 2017

Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Ayo » 1:20 am, Fri Mar 17, 2017

Magestorm has always been about the community and this version is a far cry from the game that brought players together in the first place.

Your best bet to bring people back requires a drastic change in course. I understand the reset, but it didn't work. While people are somewhat interested, it makes sense to try a different approach.

Roll out alternative versions of each class for a total of 8 possibilities, so players have classic and new school to choose from, and combine the old character database with this one. Sprinkle in new maps for good measure and poof, unicorns!

Ftumch
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Ftumch » 3:12 am, Fri Mar 17, 2017

To be honest as a long time Mage player, and without disrespect to Sorien, having such a huge exp boost bonus in FFA I believe was a mistake from the start.

All it did was encourage players who had time on their hands to power level and leave those of us who either live in the UK (so there arnt many players on when we are) or have family lives, getting (and i hate using this word) "Owned" by 1 shot kills in the 1-30 ffa's whilst struggling to obtain a char level where we can compete against all the power levellers.

It would have been better, from the start, not to have any bonus boost. FFA was purely what exp you get from combat etc is what you get.
unfortunately this is not the case, and I can see why perhaps the huge bonus exp boost in FFAs were introduced.

im pretty sure im not alone with my view that as a long standing MS player, for me, its all about the game, the community and the progression of characters in a steady way. So... my point is that even tho FFA bonus has meant players have outleveled many others and yes it can discourage many newer players to just leave, it is what it is.. its happened.. and because of my love for the game im happy to use lower level chars and die alot, as long as I get a game and can get some exp and character progression. For me.. its not about getting to lvl 30 as fast as possible so I can try to top the leaderboard or "own" everyone else.

So... from a fairness perspective... removing FFA is NOT, in my opinion, an option due to 1) high level players have benefitted from this so why remove it from lower level chars and 2) even tho I get killed very easy, at least I get a game which I may not do if there was only to 10-30, 15-30 team game option.

Its not ideal but I feel leave it as it is. Give those lower levels a chance to get the bonus and more importantly get a game

Ftumch (Hawkster)

Kuraokami
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Posts: 190
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Kuraokami » 7:21 am, Fri Mar 17, 2017

Ayo wrote:Magestorm has always been about the community and this version is a far cry from the game that brought players together in the first place.

Your best bet to bring people back requires a drastic change in course. I understand the reset, but it didn't work. While people are somewhat interested, it makes sense to try a different approach.

Roll out alternative versions of each class for a total of 8 possibilities, so players have classic and new school to choose from, and combine the old character database with this one. Sprinkle in new maps for good measure and poof, unicorns!
Originally in the designs, but forces the server into beta test mode. There's only the four classes possible from the start, to use as character creation and let mechanics, but a list of commands to swap available spell lists that only works at 0 total exp would be one possible solution. E.g., roll level a cleric, use $class cleric for traditional infrequent and strong casting of historic spells/builds, and $class healer (or druid or whatever) for Kura clerics with the weaker more frequent casts and buffs. You'd need alternate versions of spells for such, and you'd end up fractionating community based upon classic classes rules and all classes rules, though. In the existing previous spell files, there's spells for capabilities for clerics, healers, druids potentially pretty easy, mentalists, psionists, and then the Rain Laws and the other ones I made for Ops custom Laws could be salvaged. Overall, I'd recommend that if people got to jacking around with the classes and whatnot, that it be done on a separate server that stays up for people to play around on whenever. Better to keep Beta Tests on Beta Servers, imo.

Kuraokami
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Kuraokami » 7:32 am, Fri Mar 17, 2017

Sorien wrote:
Slick wrote:
Sorien wrote:I would rather be able to play and get killed than not play at all.
guess its a lose/lose scenario. better to have the option than not...

ps old server had !levelup for the "low levels never getting to play and quitting because of it".
Problem is that most people don't read/are lazy, so they didn't know about the command and didn't even ask/talk to anyone.

I think instead of !levelup we just need to make low levels in a 1-30 viable as at least team support. The exp bonuses and damage taken reduction are good starts, but I think a little more is needed.
Could just change the HP curve on classes and levels. Lower levels wouldn't be wrecking, but they'd survive long enough to at least get some shots out.

Ayo
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Ayo » 11:29 am, Fri Mar 17, 2017

Is there a technical reason a classic cleric build and kura build couldn't play at the same time?

Beta server? Really? I would argue this game never left the beta stage.

Get changes in the hands of as many people as possible and see what happens.

Kuraokami
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Posts: 190
Joined: 8:56 pm, Sat Jan 21, 2017

Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Kuraokami » 12:29 pm, Fri Mar 17, 2017

Ayo wrote:Is there a technical reason a classic cleric build and kura build couldn't play at the same time?

Beta server? Really? I would argue this game never left the beta stage.

Get changes in the hands of as many people as possible and see what happens.
No, they could, in the manner I previously stated (the spells and spell lines were different for heals and other stuff), but then you just flip the coin on the interests. Some people want just the original, some want new stuff. Please some, piss off the others. The Beta server suggestion wouldn't be the play server, but rather something you'd have to find someone to go on with you when you want to play, so it wouldn't fractionate the playerbase. With current direction, you'd need to get Picnics to start a base poll for a simple "new content or no new content."

Law
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Law » 11:53 pm, Mon Mar 20, 2017

I don't think FFA should be removed, but it shouldn't be the superior choice. I think 1 - 30 is fine, just not in FFA.

In a team match, a level 5 can hang tight with their team and score some hits on a 30, even snag a kill. In an FFA, a level 5 can enjoy walking in Valhalla. FFA is essentially a feeding frenzy for the most kill-capable individual in the match and kind of shitty for the rest. It's a game mode where backstabbing, kill stealing, and opportunistic, selfish gameplay is rewarded.

Is it a bad game mode? No. But it IS bad that it is the dominant game mode being played 90% of the time. I don't think it should be removed, but it shouldn't be the better option for exp. I think exp bonuses should only be granted for winning something, not for just staying in the game until the end.

I want to play my Cleric, but every time I log in it's an FFA. I don't want to fight people I want to heal.

On the other side of the coin: team matches suck shit as well. This is because Clerics can't be killed and Sorien buffed Heal Other to over double their MSM values, resulting in static gameplay where nobody dies and it feels like a pump fest. Buuuut hey, in 5 years when it finally dawns on you dipshits that Clerics are the problem this game won't be around for you to apologize to me.

Kuraokami
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Re: Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

Postby Kuraokami » 12:26 am, Tue Mar 21, 2017

Law wrote:I don't think FFA should be removed, but it shouldn't be the superior choice. I think 1 - 30 is fine, just not in FFA.

In a team match, a level 5 can hang tight with their team and score some hits on a 30, even snag a kill. In an FFA, a level 5 can enjoy walking in Valhalla. FFA is essentially a feeding frenzy for the most kill-capable individual in the match and kind of shitty for the rest. It's a game mode where backstabbing, kill stealing, and opportunistic, selfish gameplay is rewarded.

Is it a bad game mode? No. But it IS bad that it is the dominant game mode being played 90% of the time. I don't think it should be removed, but it shouldn't be the better option for exp. I think exp bonuses should only be granted for winning something, not for just staying in the game until the end.

I want to play my Cleric, but every time I log in it's an FFA. I don't want to fight people I want to heal.

On the other side of the coin: team matches suck shit as well. This is because Clerics can't be killed and Sorien buffed Heal Other to over double their MSM values, resulting in static gameplay where nobody dies and it feels like a pump fest. Buuuut hey, in 5 years when it finally dawns on you dipshits that Clerics are the problem this game won't be around for you to apologize to me.
Really, most things can be solved by taking an objective look at them. Too many FFA matches for what is being wanted? Nerf it a bit. Still too many? Nerf a bit more. Eventually, you get the right amount. Same with spells. Too much of this spell? Same thing lol.


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