Vote To Keep or Remove FFA matchtype

[Law]

I, for one, have never seen the point or attraction to "clench" shrining; winning a game should be by the efforts in the game up until that point, not by, essentially, a "drive by" shrining; i.e., shrinking should take far longer than it presently does, which reduces the destruction of team matches.

This is exactly why Clerics need to be killable 1v1. It's total horseshit how you couldn't defend your shrine from a Cleric even if you registered everything in your burst. Your whole team needs to relocate just to kill one guy.

I like your idea that they should shrine slower as well. Even without Prayer, I can solid wall people out of their shrine and then what? My 19 Cleric kills shrines in 2 hits every time, which is way too fast. It should take 3-5 biases at least to give the team some time to react.

If you could make there be different rolls for healing your own shrine versus damaging the enemy shrine I think that'd be moving in the right direction.

[Kuraokami]

I, for one, have never seen the point or attraction to "clench" shrining; winning a game should be by the efforts in the game up until that point, not by, essentially, a "drive by" shrining; i.e., shrinking should take far longer than it presently does, which reduces the destruction of team matches.

This is exactly why Clerics need to be killable 1v1. It's total horseshit how you couldn't defend your shrine from a Cleric even if you registered everything in your burst. Your whole team needs to relocate just to kill one guy.

I like your idea that they should shrine slower as well. Even without Prayer, I can solid wall people out of their shrine and then what? My 19 Cleric kills shrines in 2 hits every time, which is way too fast. It should take 3-5 biases at least to give the team some time to react.

If you could make there be different rolls for healing your own shrine versus damaging the enemy shrine I think that'd be moving in the right direction.

Well, I can't lol. Sorien probably coupd, though.

Clerics are kinda opposite of mages. Clerics do well in their unchanging center of ley location, and mages do well in their changing center of ley location.

All I do is offer alternative solutions. Alternative solutions are like viewing the same thing from a different angle, which ultimately allows everyone to have a clearer picture of things, because each person has their own natural angle that they look at things through.

Going back to the Clerics/Mages example, combining harder shrining with the following would cause the game to be much more objective oriented and progressive (if the game has the numbers for such):

"Pools should be stronger, mages should be a bit stronger (if Earth isn't still fixed), and bias difficulty should be logarithmic compared to how many pools the team owns. I.e., if two team own near equal pools, bias values will go quick on cpool (tides of battle quickly change), but if a team owns most of pools in map (so team is strong due to mages) then taking enemies hpools (and thus near securing match victory) will have low bias values and be hard. It's a good match progression."
"Similar flow to LoL as well, since lanes are easy, but taking a nexus is a bitch. Right now, the game is 100% about "back doors." Back doors too easy."

[Slick]

most arcs can kill a cleric 1 on 1. at least the good ones can...

[Law]

most arcs can kill a cleric 1 on 1. at least the good ones can...

And you? Do you kill Clerics 1v1 regularly? Good ones?

[Slick]

i dont play arc.. but like i said, the good ones can ;p

[Law]

i dont play arc.. but like i said, the good ones can ;p

Dodged my question. You have an Arc.

On that Arc, do you kill Clerics 1v1? Frequently? Good ones?

I already know the answer. Just because the best Arc in the game won a 2v2 vs some average Clerics in a Deathmatch I don't think that means Clerics are balanced. Also, I wouldn't take this rare occurrence and make up statistics like "I bet Ryan beats Clerics 1v1 9/10 times" and then spout them as fact. It really lacks scientific integrity.

Do the work yourself, because I already have. I have gone 1v1 in late night matches versus Sabre and Sorien who are two Clerics that are very good at staying alive. All they do is spam Airwall which blocks everything of substance you can shoot easily. If you try to footbomb them they jump around. You literally have to footbomb them *perfectly* to kill them, that is, Hesitate 3 > Unpower 3 > Bomb 1 > Unpower 3 > Bomb 1 and then keep Hes 3 up always otherwise they get away.

Oh and guess what? Because Clerics are so survivable your ley will probably start going down before you can kill them.

So tell me again how "Ryan" the fucking magical "good Arc" kills Clerics "9/10" times, because my KDR vs them was like 1:30.

Oh right, and all this is null and void if all they want to do is go into your shrine and kill it. Good luck killing a Cleric before he kills your shrine with Manastorm.

I only keep posting in this thread because Aquemini, THIS is the issue here in this game. Team matches would be played more if Clerics didn't make them absolutely unbearable.

[Kuraokami]

Isn't that kind of inconsequential? Arcs should be disabling clerics. Ments should be killing them lol

[Law]

Clerics being a raidboss is what's wrong with team matches. The only way team matches are fun is if there are more fighters than the Cleric can heal. Killing is fun, death is fun. With Sorien's buff to Heal Other (almost double MSM values), small games with Clerics are stalemates where people shoot each other and nobody dies.

Get that shit out of here. Nerf Prayer, nerf Heal Other, nerf Full Heal. Make it so people can KILL someone for fucks sake. Otherwise, if we just remove FFA without making team games fun, the game will die for sure.

[Slick]

@LAW

1. you dont play, why are you so concerned? dont like ffa? there might be one cleric in a FFA. dont like team games? most team games have been events lately - clerics are balanced. even if it isnt an event, teams are (mostly) balanced and clerics are not an issue at all.

2. yeah, i can kill a cleric consistently on my arc. the "good" clerics? death, help and healy are the only decent level 30 clerics. they are all killable... killed off healy's team in a 3 team match the other night on my arc. hell, there are only FOUR level 30 clerics.

3. dissing ryan? there are several other (ryan doesnt play) decent arcs that can kill clerics and the ones i was speaking of... killax, rain and *maybe* blight. even limit could kill your cleric with P5.

your vision of cleric's is delusional. they should not be killable 1 on 1. you absolutely should not be able to kill them 1 on 1 in their shrine. this is a *team* game and cleric's are one aspect of this *team* game that requires more than one random player to kill them.

[Kuraokami]

Well, Clerics are life and the other classes are death, so really, in neutral territory, each of the other 3 classes should be able to neutralize a cleric 1v1 to halt the cleric from healing his teammates. Like a big gay bear hug.

[Law]

@LAW
1. you dont play,
2. dissing ryan?

1. Yes, I don't play that often. I don't want to play FFA, and when I play team matches they're kind of boring. Isn't that what this thread is about? Figuring out why people aren't playing so the right changes can be made so the game attracts players instead of repulses them? I am giving my feedback.

2. I never dissed Ryan, I deconstructed your argument. In fact, I called Ryan "The best Arc in the game." You always use the argument that "Ryan killed some Clerics that one time so they're totally balanced." I'm saying that argument isn't really a good one.

Your views are really inconsistent, Slick. On one hand, you literally say "Clerics are balanced." On the other hand you flame me for joining a 20 person game on my Cleric and I somehow "stacked it". Seriously? ONE person offset the balance of a 20 person game? Which one is it? Are Clerics balanced or clearly more potent than the other classes in terms of game outcome?

So basically what you're saying is, Clerics aren't balanced for shit. They're absolutely OP. The community has to work together and balance the games around the OP as fuck Clerics. Gotta make sure the ratio is good, right? Gotta have at least 5 fighters for every Cleric, right? Events are great, right? Limit of 1, maybe 2 Clerics per team for 8 - 10 fighters. Good shit man, good shit. "Balance", done by the OP hosting the event.

Well, Clerics are life and the other classes are death, so really, in neutral territory, each of the other 3 classes should be able to neutralize a cleric 1v1 to halt the cleric from healing his teammates. Like a big gay bear hug.

They should do more than just halt healing, they should be able to remove the piece from the board. Imagine how much fun Chess would be if you couldn't take pieces.

[Kuraokami]

I'm comparing it more to white king vs black king.

Cleric: ability to give life.
Others: ability to take life.

1 on 1 they should cancel out when circumstances are equivocal. 2 clerics vs 2 other's should cancel out when circumstances are equivocal.

It's removing from the board by removing the self as well, which is in itself sometimes the most strategical option.

[Slick]

i'm saying clerics are one of the foundations of this *team* game. not sure wtf this 1 on 1 rant is all about. my opinion about clerics and this game is very consistent.

clerics are OP. they should be.

yes, clerics are clearly more potent than other classes and can change the outcome of a balanced match. knowing this, why would you enter a balanced 20 player match with a cleric? this would be one of two of my two reasons to flame someone - the other being: entering a match when it is about over. where the person joining clearly changes the outcome. for example, yesterday we had a great 20ish player match going - there was less than 20 min left. balanced the first 20 min and the last 20 min the shrines were down in this 2T cats. a 30 wiz decided to come in with less than 20 min remaining. the match ended within 2-3 minutes after entering. yeah, shit like that urks the hell out of me.

[Kuraokami]

So clerics being OP'd compared to other classes is what you consider to be balanced?

[Slick]

So clerics being OP'd compared to other classes is what you consider to be balanced?

trying to compare clerics to other classes is the core flaw in several of these rant threads. but hey, this is my opinion.

how about keeping the *debate* to a logical scenario. 8 v 8 or 8 v 8 v 8. where each team has 1 cleric. yes, it's balanced.

the pipe dream where some random non-cleric is supposed to be able to 1 on 1 a cleric. where exactly does this play out in a 12 or 20 player match? do i magically find a cleric lurking in a back hallway alone and want to duel them?

with a bit of community patrolling its easy to make teams fair. call it flaming.. or call it common sense.